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Post by fanuidhol on Aug 9, 2020 6:35:12 GMT -6
I am researching the Cuivienyarna* (War of the Jewels pgs 420-424 The Awakening of the Elves), going through my books looking for references. And as I like to do, I check Letters to see what was going on during the time period that JRRT wrote whatever it is that I am researching. So, Letter #219, Tolkien wrote in answer to Allen and Unwin about a cat breeder wanting to use names - "I fear that to me Siamese cats belong to the fauna of Mordor..." I laughed out loud. My daughter has a visceral aversion to Siamese cats. I thought it was funny.
But, did not see anything about the Cuivienyarna. If I find anything of note elsewhere, I will create a thread in the HoMe section.
*Tinfang suggested a re-read before his play.
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Post by Andorinha on Aug 9, 2020 21:09:53 GMT -6
LOL, poor cats... Knew one Siamese, so inbred it was really a mess -- now, a good ole pound cat, with hybrid vigour, is great. Hmm, will have to dust off my accessory volumes to follow Fan here.
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Post by Stormrider on Aug 9, 2020 22:07:04 GMT -6
All of my HoME books are packed away still at my youngest daughter's house. I do have The Sil, The Hobbit, LOTR, and UT with me as we travel. Perhaps some of the Cuivienen-story will be in The Sil. Yes, Chapter 3 but it isn't very long. I guess it will have to do!
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Post by Fredeghar Wayfarer on Aug 13, 2020 10:51:53 GMT -6
Tolkien didn't seem to like cats at all. Remember Tevildo the King of Cats was the original version of Sauron in the Lost Tales.
It makes me kind of sad. I love cats. They can be jerks, no doubt. But they can also be very sweet and loving. And they're much less maintenance than dogs, in my opinion.
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Post by fanuidhol on Aug 13, 2020 11:50:59 GMT -6
He was specifically stating Siamese cats in that letter. My daughter loves cats. Has one now and several in the past. But, do not even say Siamese in front of her. She starts throwing things. I thought of Tevildo, and wondered if he meant all cats. But, then there is this: tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Cat_(poem)#:~:text=Cat%20is%20a%20poem%20written,touched%20up%20an%20older%20pie Why would he choose to write a poem about a cat if he didn't care for them at all?
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Post by Fredeghar Wayfarer on Aug 13, 2020 13:49:38 GMT -6
There were also the cats of Queen Beruthiel who were sent to spy on the people of Gondor. Even the poem you cited calls attention to cats' predatory tendencies and seems to imply the pet cat is dreaming of his big cat ancestors feeding on men. The cat in the Man in the Moon poem is more comical though. I think Tolkien had mixed feelings about cats or at least portrayed them as somewhat wild and dangerous (which is fair, I suppose). This link mentions other uses of cats in Tolkien's work. The editors seem to have gotten the same impression as me about Tolkien and cats. But this is all speculation. tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Cats
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Post by fanuidhol on Aug 13, 2020 15:05:16 GMT -6
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Post by Stormrider on Aug 13, 2020 16:16:19 GMT -6
Ah! The old discussion threads. Good to read again. Adventure in Middle Earth. That was fun. Too bad we stopped it. Didn't we continue it again later here with Desi and Freddie or was that a different story? I'll have to go peruse it again. Now I'm trying to remember if there were any dogs mentioned in any of Tolkien's writings. Huan is all I can think of. tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Huan
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Post by Andorinha on Aug 13, 2020 16:27:37 GMT -6
Stormrider: "Now I'm trying to remember if there were any dogs mentioned in any of Tolkien's writings."
Hmmm, what's the name of the Dog that went to the Moon? Roverandom? "Farmer Giles of Ham," has a speaking dog, bit of a braggart and howls in fear a lot...
Then The Hobbit has Beorn's Dogs; FotR has Grip, Fang, and Wolf at farmer Maggot's. Don't remember any dogs in Bree? Other than Huan, don't recall Elvish dogs, nor Dwarven dogs... Orcs have wargs and wolves...
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Post by Stormrider on Aug 13, 2020 16:34:02 GMT -6
Wow! How could I forget all those ... Especially Maggot's dogs!
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Post by Andorinha on Aug 13, 2020 20:59:53 GMT -6
Still don't remember dogs in Bree, but the hobbit worker at the Prancing Pony had a cat -- in the song the Shire hobbits sang (before Frodo put his finger in the Ring) they sang about "the cat and the fiddle" -- a Bree citizen chimed in "Bob ought to teach his cat how to play the fiddle" or words to that effect.
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Post by fanuidhol on Aug 14, 2020 5:51:45 GMT -6
I had hopes for Tinker, the black cat, that lived with Rover at the beginning of Roverandom, but, no. When Rover shrunk from the wizard spell he thought any cat would think he was a mouse. "Tinker would." pg 4.
I, myself, am a dog person, though cats are fine. We have 4. I didn't let you guys know, but I had to put down my 11 year old, beloved German Shepherd at the end of last month. He had cancer. Down to one dog at present, my "mini" mastiff. Do plan on a puppy post covid so Gson may be a part. Going smaller...
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Post by fanuidhol on Aug 14, 2020 15:47:13 GMT -6
I was looking up Cuivienyarna in JRR Tolkien Companion and Guide, Reader's Guide by Scull and Hsmmond, and I decided to look for Cat, the poem. According to them, JRRT wrote it to please his granddaughter, Joanna in 1956. They did not provide a source.
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Post by Stormrider on Aug 14, 2020 16:08:53 GMT -6
Oh no. So sorry to hear about your Shepherd. Darn cancer. We had cats at our farm, too. I like them but not as much as dogs.
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