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Post by Sparrow on Aug 31, 2004 19:44:55 GMT -6
In Chapter 8, Bilbo and the dwarves encounter elves for the second time during this quest. How do the woodland elves compare with those at the Last Homely House (Chapter 3)? For those of you who have read Lord of the Rings and Silmarillion, how do these elves compare with those from other Tolkien literature?
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Post by Desi Baggins on Sept 14, 2004 16:18:45 GMT -6
The Woodland Elves are more mysterious than the Rivendell ones. But I guess living in such a dark and creepy place makes one that way.
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Post by Greenleaf on Sept 16, 2004 16:36:29 GMT -6
Undoubtedly there seems to be a great difference between the Elves of Rivendell and the Woodland Elves. But I think this is because the narrator tells us the story mostly through Bilbo’s point of view. So we don’t really have an objective view of these two Elven people. I suppose if Thorin and company had crossed Mirkwood accompanied by Gandalf, the Wood-elves would have greeted the Dwarves in a much friendlier way, perhaps even offered them hospitality, and Bilbo would not have been inclined to regard them as such a hostile and wary folk. On the other hand, as Desi pointed out, the Mirkwood Elves were justified in their distrust towards strangers, since Sauron’s darkness was creeping through the forest at the time and the Wood-elves were virtually in a state of war.
However, if we presume the Rivendell and Mirkwood Elves of The Hobbit to be those same Elves we meet in LotR and The Silmarillion, there are still some differences between them. The Wood-elves of Mirkwood were descendants of the Nandorin Elves who did not make the Great Journey to Aman, and were a rather rustic and uncultivated folk compared to the Elves of Rivendell, who (if I’m not mistaken) were of Noldorin origin and were more cultured and sophisticated.
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Post by Stormrider on Sept 3, 2012 14:26:54 GMT -6
The Elves from Rivendell and those from Mirkwood were different breeds for Elves as Greenleaf mentioned above. There would be more refinement to those Elves who made the Journey where those who did not would have missed some wonderous things and learning so they would have been more rugged.
And as Greenleaf said, Gandalf was not with them as he had been when they came to Rivendell. Gandalf has a great deal of influence (since he is loved by many) in introducing people to each other on the road--look how he smoothed it over with Beorn.
The Dwarves must have seemed like very noisy, intrusive creatures, crashing the Elves feast several times. The Elves and Dwarves were not always that friendly with each other from past history. And as Desi said, the Necromancer's influence must have been beginning to creep into the northern parts of Mirkwood. The Elves of Mirkwood were justified in protecting their territory. Too bad the Dwarves did not feel they could have been more forthcoming with the Elves.
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Post by Andorinha on Sept 4, 2012 6:44:05 GMT -6
I always seem to take the dwarves side when this issue comes up. I guess I expected more of the elves, they are supposed to be the "Good People;" and it seems to me that they should have known someone (other than themselves) was using their road through the forest, they should have spied out the troupe, should have realized their desperation, and at least offered food and water. But these elves do indeed seem quite a different people from those of Elrond's band, these are grumpy, suspicious elves...
Yeah, the dwarves and Bilbo might have done better with an introduction from Gandalf.
At the very least, as security-minded elves, I would think they would want to know what dwarves were doing in the forest, and would not wait til the capture scenes to find out...
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Post by Stormrider on Sept 4, 2012 18:56:44 GMT -6
At the very least, as security-minded elves, I would think they would want to know what dwarves were doing in the forest, and would not wait til the capture scenes to find out... I never thought about that before! Yes, they must have been aware of the Dwarves. If the forest was already getting dark and dangerous due to the Necromancer, you would have expected the Elves to have scouts posted throughout reporting back with news of anything going on in the forest. So a bunch of hungry Dwarves attempting to make contact to beg food should not have been any surprise to the Elves. The Elves would have already realized the Dwarves were just hungry and lost if that was the case! But, of course, that would have ruined the dungeon scenes wouldn't it? And Bilbo's big chance to use his wits, his ring, and his skills to save the Dwarves and come up even higher in their opinions. However, I am sure Bilbo had not rescued them for any added glory anyway, but did it just to save them cuz they needed it.
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