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Post by Stormrider on Jan 14, 2009 21:55:07 GMT -6
From: Stormridr (Original Message) Sent: 3/16/2003 9:52 PM Billy Boyd as Peregrin Took Pippin is alone for the first time since he set out from the Shire. He is feeling very lonely and misses his other Hobbit friends, especially Merry. Because he has pledged his liege to Denethor, he now has some privileges that he would not otherwise have had--such as moving freely through the City and learning a few passwords. Because of this privilege, Pippin befriends Beregond and his son, Bergil. I was glad to see that Pippin found some good company in which he could exchange learning experiences and gain some mutual admiration. Do you think Pippin's interactions with the father and son help him to grow more worldly? Do these friendships help ease his loneliness? Stormrider |
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Post by Stormrider on Jan 14, 2009 21:57:02 GMT -6
From: Artemis Sent: 3/18/2003 4:06 PM
We see Pippin growing up before our eyes. Back in the Shire he considered himself a youngster and was pretty care-free. The interactions between Pippin and Beregond and Bergil reminded me of the changes taking place in Pippin. He is realizing that the stature of a person is more than just his size, and wisdom can not be defined by years alone. So yes, he is becoming more wordly and realizing that not all things in middle earth are defined strictly according to the traditions of the Shire.
I love how he plays with Bergil when they first meet. A perfect example of Hobbit "pertness". I think he misses the ever-present playfulness and bantering between him and Merry.
Even though he has made some new friends, I think Pippin is still lonely because the lonliness comes from more than just missing his friends and missing his home. He is mourning the loss of his childhood and the innocence he sees slipping away.
Julliet
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From: magpie Sent: 3/18/2003 7:42 PM
Artemis/Julliet
I liked this thought. "Even though he has made some new friends, I think Pippin is still lonely because the lonliness comes from more than just missing his friends and missing his home. He is mourning the loss of his childhood and the innocence he sees slipping away."
I remember that feeling. I've been listening to the Inglis audio books and they have "Concerning Hobbits" at the end of ROTK. This struck me... "It is true that the Took family had long been pre-eminent; for the office of Thain had passed to them (from the Oldbucks) some centuries before, and the chief Took had borne that title ever since. The Thain was the master of the Shire-moot, and captain of the Shire-muster and the Hobbitry-in-arms, but as muster and moot were only held in times of emergency, which no longer occurred, the Thainship had ceased to be more than a nominal dignity. The Took family was still, indeed, accorded a special respect, for it remained both numerous and exceedingly wealthy..."
I had this image of the young adult of a wealthy, dignified, respected family that is always getting into mischief and never takes things seriously. So the shift into "this is some serious ****" going on here, would have been a significant one.
Magpie
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From: Fosco Baggins Sent: 3/18/2003 8:05 PM
Great line, Julliet, I wish had put it in my poem.......:
Pippin and Bergil at play
Innocense yes, but slipping away
The turrets are high, the enemy close
mourn for the times we miss the most
......... or some such passage, would have been an excellent addition.
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From: Ruscosenda Sent: 3/19/2003 10:09 AM
Great point, Magpie. I never really thought of Pippin that way, but it makes completed sense. He was a typical wealthy, young playboy - never taking life too seriously. He started this quest because of his friendship with Frodo and Merry. First, he was separated from Frodo at Amon Hen. Then, he was separated from Merry when he went to Minas Tirith with Gandalf. Until this point, he was able to let Frodo and Merry be the serious ones - but now that he was alone(the only hobbit), it was time for him to step up to the plate. Wow, I am really enjoying this discussion. I am really getting to understand Pippin at a whole new level.
-- Rusco
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From: D-Jammer Sent: 3/20/2003 12:45 PM
Forming new friendships on the verge of war ... how appropriate a parallel to the situation of the latest days. The other day I saw a couple of soldiers on TV greeting their family and friends back home, and the second soldier stated that he was 18 years old .......... I just sat there and could not imagine. Just last year he would have been a high school senior. Similarly, young Pippin less than a year before was a happy-go-lucky hobbit in the Shire. Poised on the verge of war, the young soldiers of our country were busy forming new friendships ... some with soldiers they had known before from their company, but I'm sure there were new ones being in a different place with even more soldiers from other places. The difference is that Pippin had none of his friends with him in Minas Tirith. I guess that was similar to the way that I went away to college without knowing anyone there.
What a way to grow up in a hurry! But isn't that how life can be? I'm sure that the new friendships help ease the loneliness somewhat, but it is never completely eradicated. The changes of life include changing friendships and relationships, but new ones can never truly take the place of the old friendships. So we all learn to move on missing the past, but doing what we need to do today. Just like our soldiers in the desert today ... trusting in their new friends, missing their loved-ones, and doing what needs to be done to survive the evils of the day. Exactly what Pippin would end up doing when the battle finally arrived.
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From: sparrow Sent: 4/2/2003 12:46 PM
D-Jammer - 18 yr. old soldiers - only two years older than my daughter - my baby!
My daughter and I have calculated that she is approximately equivalent now to Pippin's age. A sobering thought!
Pippin's loneliness follows, in addition to the other events mentioned, his looking into the Palantir. Another chip away at his innocence! Another event to increase his worldliness!
I too, love Pippin's easy acquaintance with Bergil. His speech to Bergil about not being what he seems illustrates how Pippin has one foot in childhood and one foot in adulthood, as does his ability to relate comfortably with Bergil and Beregond.
Fosco, great verse!
Regards,
Sparrow
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