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Post by Stormrider on Jan 14, 2009 23:22:50 GMT -6
From: Stormridr (Original Message) Sent: 3/30/2003 6:23 PM Michael Kaluta has requested that we do not post
his art directly on our site but to link to his site This is the first time that Merry has seen Éowyn. She greets Théoden, tells him her heart is glad at his returning, and informs him that all is well. Merry feels that her "voice belied her" and that she had been weeping. Merry is also concerned about Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli after hearing Éowyn mention that they have taken the Paths of the Dead. Later on in the chapter, Merry has been informed that he will be remaining at Edoras with Éowyn. Merry begs to go with to no avail. Éowyn takes Merry with her to show him the gear that she has prepared for him. Do you see any similarities in Éowyn and Merry's plights? Do they have any other things in common? How do they both feel about having to stay behind? |
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Post by Stormrider on Jan 14, 2009 23:24:56 GMT -6
From: Desi-Baggins Sent: 4/2/2003 6:59 AM
I think these 2 are alike in the way that they both have strong loyalties. Also others tend to limit their abilities and this frustrates both of 'em.
Desi
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From: AnnieLT (Original Message) Sent: 4/17/2003 5:24 PM
I moved the discussion, "Defeat of the Witchking" (Wk5, Bk5, Ch8) here to be included under Stormrider's Wk3, Bk5, Ch3 DISCUSSION: Eowyn and Merry.
The picture was lost--it was entitled "Éowyn, Merry, and the Witchking" by Eugenia Wienstein
Wk5, Bk5, Ch6, DISCUSSION: Defeat of the Witchking
Both Merry and Eowyn , it seems, had been under-estimated and were commanded to stay behind. Eowyn disguised as Dernhelm and Merry hidden within the cloak of Dernhelm are given the opportunity to come into their own. The drama that unfolds on the Pelennor fields becomes a life changing episode for both Lady and hobbit. Together they slay the Witchking, a beast that, we are told, can not be slain by a living man. "But no living man am I..." cries Eowyn putting aside her Dernhelm disguise. And neither is Pippin but a hobbit. Did this confrontation with the Nazgul and his winged beast change any previous impressions that you might have had about Pippin or Eowyn?
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Post by Stormrider on Jan 14, 2009 23:26:47 GMT -6
From: Storrmrider Sent: 4/17/2003 7:27 PM
I have to reprint some of the passage of the death of the Captain of the Ringwraiths here. I have been wondering about the questions that I will list at the bottom of the passage and hope all of you will have some interesting insights.
"Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!"
Then Merry heard of all sounds in that hour the strangest. It seemed that Denrhelm laughed, and the clear voice was like the ring of steel. "But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him."
The winged creature screamed at her, but the Ringwraith made no answer, and was silent, as if in sudden doubt. Very amazement for a moment conquered Merry's fear........Merry clenched his hand. She should not die, so fair, so desperate! At least she should not die alone, unaided."
The face of their enemy was not turned towards him, but still he hardly dared to move, dreading lest the deadly eyes should fall on him. Slowly, slowly he began to crawl aside; but the Black Captain, in doubt and malice intent upon the woman before him, heeded him no more than a worm in the mud........
But suddenly he [the Black Captain] stumbled forward with a cry of bitter pain, and his stroke went wide, driving into the ground. Merry's sword had stabbed him from behind, shearing through the black mantle, and passing up beneath the hauberk had pierced the sinew behind his mighty knee.
"Éowyn! Éowyn!" cried Merry. Then tottering, struggling up, with her last strength she drove her sword between crown and mantle, as the great shoulder bowed before her. The sword broke sparkling into many shards. The crown rolled away with a clang. Éowyn fell forward upon her fallen foe. But lo! The mantle and hauberk were empty. Shapeless they now lay on the ground, torn and tumbled; and a cry went up into the shuddering air, and faded to a shrill wailing, passing with the wind, a voice bodiless and thin that died, and was swallowed up, and was never heard again in the age of this world.
What was it about his assailant being a woman that caused the Ringwraith to pause in doubt? His attention was so focussed on her that he took no notice of Merry creeping up behind.
What was it that actually destroyed the Ringwraith?:
1. Merry's sword from the barrow downs which was long, leaf-shaped, and keen, of marvellous workmanship, damasked with serpent-forms in red and gold. It was wrought of some strange metal, light and strong, and set with many fiery stones. The blade was untouched by time, unrusted, sharp, and glittering in the sun. [This passage is from "Fog on the Barrow-Downs FOTR Bk1, Ch 8]
2. Éowyn's bravery and womanlilness?
3. Or was it a combination of both?
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Post by Stormrider on Jan 14, 2009 23:29:40 GMT -6
From: jerseyshore Sent: 4/18/2003 7:56 PM
This always reminds me of Act V, Scene VII of Macbeth.
MACBETH: As easy mayst thou the intrenchant air
With thy keen sword impress as make me bleed:
Let fall thy blade on vulnerable crests;
I bear a charmed life, which must not yield!
To one of woman born.
MACDUFF: Despair thy charm:
And let the angel whom thou still hast serv'd
Tell thee, Macduff was from his mother's womb
Untimely ripp'd.
And, of course, Macduff kills Macbeth and cuts off his head.
The Witch-king likewise feels he is invulnerable--no man can slay him. As with Macbeth, I think we wonder how much of his defeat is due to the shock caused by the reply from his opponent, and how much is due to the actual overpowering might of the "hero". That moment of hesitation when Macbeth and the Witchking hear that the "charm" that says they will fall to no MAN has a loophole in it can be partially responsible for their sudden vulnerability. But the strength and bravery of the person (or persons) who have the nerve to challenge the foe and strike at him is also a large factor in his defeat. So the answer is "all of the above." The disheartening effect of the news that the Witchking faces not a mortal man, but a woman and a hobbit, combined with their bravery and their weaponry leads to the elimination of a fearsome creature.
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From: AnnieLT Sent: 4/19/2003 11:22 AM
Jerseyshore, what a wonderful comparison to Shakespear's Macbeth. I read this years ago and had forgotten it. Thank you for reminding us. Fascinating and timely.
Annie
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From: Merlin the mad Sent: 4/19/2003 5:56 PM
I think Tolkien resorts to the simplest means possible and the least magic necessary to get the job of fulfilling destiny done. Ergo, Eowyn alone could not have dealt the Witchking a mortal blow with her common steel sword, or any other common weapon. It really was the sword of Merry (Hobbit's are a race of Men, according to Tolkien, and Merry could not have done anything without the ancient blade) which did the damage: knit the Wraith's unnatural flesh together (broke the spell forming his "undeadness", or at least undoing it enuf temporarily to do the job), and made Eowyn's killing blow possible at all. It was the momentary confusticatation of the Witchking ("dang! I never looked at it that way: a WOMAN! I wonder if that changes anything?") which allowed Merry time to crawl forward and make his point. It was only Eowyn's tactical ploy (all unrehearsed - for how could she anticipate such an encounter?) to buy time and pump herself up which played the Wraith for a fool and made Merry's part possible. Destiny and fate are never known by mortals: but God knew the ingredients far ahead of their coming together, and the outcome was probably never in doubt.
MtM
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