Wk3, Bk5, Ch3: Dernhelm & Merry

[Stormrider]

From: Stormridr (Original Message) Sent: 3/30/2003 5:45 PM

Dernhelm - Detail by Rosana Sullivan	Dominic Monahan as Merry from New Line Cinema

Merry has been told to stay in Edoras. He does not wish to do that. But luckily for Merry, he meets a young Rider with a grim face, named Dernhelm.

"Where will wants not, a way opens, so we say," Dernhelm whispered; "and so I have found myself. You wish to go whither the Lord of the Mark goes: I see it in your face."

" I do," said Merry.

"Then you shall go with me," said the Rider. "I will bear you before me, under my cloak until we are far afield, and this darkness is yet darker. Such good will should not be denied. Say no more to any man, but come!"

Even though Merry has been released by Théoden from his service, Merry is still disobeying orders. Dernhelm is aware of this and yet offers his aid to Merry.

Those who have already read ROTK, please try not to give out any spoilers while answering these questions!

Why do you think Dernhelm offered to give Merry passage with him?

Is Dernhelm so grim that he does not care if he disobeys orders?

Being a Rider in the éored, why would Dernhelm risk his neck to help Merry?

As great as Merry's desire was not to be left behind, do you think Merry even took into consideration the fact that he was disobeying orders?

[Stormrider]

From: Olórin Sent: 3/31/2003 5:00 PM
Dernhelm knows exactly how Merry feels... he feels that way to. He just want to give Merry the oportunity to aid his master, even if that is not by the rules.

I dont think Merry considered the fact that he was disobeying orders, he just knew his place was with the riders

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From: magpie Sent: 3/31/2003 7:47 PM
Merry wasn't used to hearing or following 'orders', especially of the military kind, so I agree with Olorin. As gentry the only things he *might* follow were social conventions.

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From: Desi-Baggins Sent: 3/31/2003 8:05 PM
Merry felt his place was helping his friend's in the battle against Sauron so he was not going to be left behind!
Maybe Dernhelm also felt that the more going to battle the better no matter what your size!

Since I ride and own horses I want to know who said that some one of child size can not ride a horse! I know several kids that ride horses and not ponie and those kids ride better than most adults! If the people of Rohan are such great horseback riders then their children must ride horses (we saw in the movie that they did) so they must know that size does not matter! So there is no reason that Merry could not have ridden a horse, plus anyone that has ridden and pony and a horse knows that horses have a much smoother gait and are easier to ride! Sorry just had to get all that off my chest! LOL

Desi

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From: LindaS Sent: 4/1/2003 9:52 AM
Perhaps we can compare the association of Dernhelm and Merry with that of Frodo and Gollum.

Many times Tolkien's characters act on an instinct they have about their own destinies and the destinies of others. Frodo spares Gollum because he senses that there is a need to spare him, that Gollum is a necessary part of the Quest. Does Dernhelm take Merry with him because he also senses that Merry is a necessary part of something yet to occur?

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From: Redha Sent: 4/2/2003 10:19 AM
"Where will wants not, a way opens, so we say," Dernhelm whispered; "and so I have found myself. "

Just this statement would seem to say that Dernhelm has a great deal of sympathy for Merry. Where does it come from? Merry has yet to find out. But he is not one to look past an opportunity, anymore than he did when escaping the Uruk-hai.

Merry is on his own now after all. His Companions are far away and Theoden has dismissed him. He as much said he would follow them whichever way he could.

Also it seems Dernhelm may be concerned about getting caught, but not with the consequences that his commander or comrades might suffer if Merry is discovered. Are they already turning a blind eye to Dernhelm? Does everyone believe they are riding to their deaths and discipline really does not matter that much anymore?

Or is that the Rohorrim are actually very emotional people who tend to sympathize and have empathy for the troubled hearts of others or their sad doom? Maybe the only discipline they know is to ignore this tenderness.

Redha

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From: Ruscosenda Sent: 4/2/2003 12:29 PM
I agree with the previous comments that Dernhelm was moved with compassion when he saw Merry's passion and desperation. It is interesting that Dernhelm would be willing to risk disobeying the King's orders for this Holbytta. Maybe this passage provides a clue.
"Where will wants not, a way opens, so we say," Dernhelm whispered; "and so I have found myself. "
I believe the key is in the phrase "and so I have found myself." I think that Dernhelm has more than sympathy for Merry, he has empathy. He may have experienced the same emotions and struggles that Merry is confronting. I guess we'll just have to stay tuned for the rest of the story.

-- Rusco

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From: Alaere_Dûnhilien Sent: 4/6/2003 9:36 AM
Desi: I always believed that Théoden may have used Merry's 'inability' to ride a horse as an exuse to let him stay behind. I really got the impression that Théoden was looking for any excuse to let Merry stay, probably because he was worried about him, as he did with Éowyn.

Concerning Dernhelm, there are lots of indications about him; from the beginning, it is obvious that he is different than all the rest. Maybe that is the reason why he is willing to disobey orders, and why, as Rusco says, he feels empathy for the young Hobbit, and I agree with Rusco that the quote he stated there, is key.

Alaere

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From: Desi-Baggins Sent: 4/6/2003 7:03 PM
Now that is a thought! It makes sense that Theoden is worried about Merry so he is finding a way to keep him out of danger.......Thanx Alaere for solving that little problem of mine!

Desi

[Stormrider]

From: Stormridr Sent: 4/13/2003 9:23 PM
Rather than start a new thread, I thought I would post this discussion topic here since it fit in with the above comments.

Wk5, Bk5, Ch5 DISCUSSION: Merry's Disobedience and Uselessness

"He had ridden now for four days on end, and the ever-deepening gloom had slowly weighed down his heart. He began to wonder why he had been so eager to come, when he had been given every excuse, even his lord's command, to stay behind. He wondered, too, if the old King knew that he had been disobeyed and was angry."

Since Merry was released from the King's service, would he be punished for coming along anyway? Why or Why not?

Was Merry more worried about the King's feelings that he had been disobeyed rather than the seriousness of his disobedience and the consequences of it?

"Merry was riding behind Dernhelm, clutching with the left hand while with the other he tried to loosen his sword in its sheath. He felt now bitterly the truth of the old king's words: 'in such a battle what would you do, Meriadoc?' Just this, he thought: 'encumber a rider, and hope at best to stay in my seat and not be pounded to death by galloping hoofs!' "

I can sympathize with Merry here. He wanted so much to be a part of the battle like all of his friends and did not think about how much he would hinder a rider.

Do you think that Merry is regretting his hasty actions and is now having second thoughts?

Does he doubt that he will have any worthwhile effect in the battle?