Wk4 Bk5 Ch4: Faramir-One of the King's Men?

[Stormrider]

From: AnnieLT (Original Message) Sent: 4/6/2003 10:53 PM

The picture was lost--It was a picture of Pippin and Faramir by Anke-Katrin EiBmann

Wk 4, BK V, CH 4 DISCUSSION: FARAMIR, ONE OF THE KINGS OF MEN?

When Pippin first beholds Faramir as he passes under the lamp beneath the gate-arch, he is immediately reminded of Boromir, but as he continues gazing on this face, Pippin sees qualities of Aragorn in the man. What qualities does Pippin see? Based on what you already know of Faramir (from the books, not the PJ film) would you agree with the hobbit? And what do you say about Pippin’s description that Faramir, like Aragorn, is "one of the Kings of Men born into a later time, but touched with the wisdom and sadness of the Elder Race." (Remember that Pippin, at this point, knows nothing of Faramir’s meeting with Frodo and Sam or his rejection of the Ring.) Knowing what you know of both men thus far, how would you compare Aragorn and Faramir?

[Stormrider]

From: LindaS Sent: 4/7/2003 12:39 AM
It has always impressed me that Tolkien thought of Faramir and Aragorn as almost mirror images of each other. Tolkien presents them both as the living embodiment of the greatness of the Numenoreans, who were descendents of both Elves and Men.

Tolkien writes that this quality of the Numenoreans "ran true" in Faramir and his father, but not in his brother Boromir.

Linda

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From: Merlin the mad Sent: 4/7/2003 6:57 PM
Tolkien said: "I am not Gandalf, being a transcendent Sub-creator in this little world. As far as any character is 'like me' it is Faramir - except that I lack what all my characters possess (let the psychoanalysts note!) Courage.

Faramir's likeness to Aragorn is very real: in fact, both are so upright and full of courage and integrity, that having them both in a movie version posed the problem that others have lamented: that Faramir's character in the movie seems "cheapened" compared to him in the book. This is not so (imho), but seems that way only because PJ cannot put up a Faramir equal to Aragorn without confusing the audience as to who the central hero is. Faramir does everything the way Aragorn would, if faced suddenly with the opportunity to possess the One Ring. And this is true in the movie Faramir too: he doesn't even touch the Ring and lets Frodo keep it; then he lets him continue on his hopeless quest rather than send the Ring to his father (at the risk of his own life to do it, since he had broken a law which carried the death penalty). Perhaps this isn't the best thread to discuss a movie Faramir: but I just think it interesting that PJ managed to carry out his emphasis on Aragorn's heroic role and also make Faramir into an upright character with equal resolve not to let himself have anything to do with the Ring.

MtM

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From: LindaS Sent: 4/8/2003 1:20 AM
MtM - Your citing of Tolkien on Faramir is very interesting. I've found it striking that Tolkien spent so much time on this particular character, showing the reader his thoughts and personality, and especially his relationship with his father. So much so that we seem to know more details about him than about Aragorn, the central hero. Obviously, Faramir meant something deeply personal to Tolkien. Otherwise, why indeed did this story need another lofty hero?

Unfortunately, this does not help me support Jackson's choice of his portrayl of Faramir. Adding to all the other objections that I and others have been cited time and again on the net, now there is the knowledge that Tolkien felt this close to the Faramir character, and it is that character that Jackson's audience has been deprived of seeing. Linda