Wk4 Bk5 Ch4: In the eyes of Pippin

[Stormrider]

From: AnnieLT (Original Message) Sent: 4/6/2003 11:07 PM

The picture was lost--It was a picture entitled "Poinous Despair" by Steven Cavallo

Wk4, Bk5, Ch4, DISCUSSION: IN THE EYES OF PIPPIN

I find it interesting that the Siege is seen from the eyes of Pippin. The entire scrimmage, as seen from above the battle field beyond the gates of Minas Tirith, is described from Pippin’s point of view as are other events happening within the citadel. Throughout Pippin tends to be dumb struck or full of terror. He feels embarrassed when Beregond thinks first of his captain as Pippin cowers on the wall. (The above picture, I think, captures that fear and anguish.) Why do you think Tolkien chooses to tell this story from the interpretation of this frightened little hobbit?

When Pippin discovers Denethor’s intentions, he thinks first of Gandalf; only the grey wizard can stop what is to occur and he flees in terror. Only moments later does the Hobbit take any initiative when he tries to convince Beregond to go to Faramir’s side while he goes in search of Gandalf. Could any other character have described the events better? Imagine how the story might have been written from Gandalf"s or Eomer’s point of view? What is Tolkien trying to convey to his reader, do you think, as we witness this day by experiencing Pippin’s thoughts and fears?

[Stormrider]

From: jerseyshore Sent: 4/7/2003 8:01 PM
Almost all of LOTR is told from the viewpoint of one hobbit or another. Most of the scenes in which Sam appears feature his view of the happenings. When Merry and Pippin are captured by the Orcs, we see their experiences, the Ents and the fall of Saruman through their eyes. Only when Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas travel apart from the hobbits do we see things from the point of view of a non-hobbit. I think it is the hobbits--even more than the humans--with whom we identify in these books. Most of us do not see ourselves as heroes, and heirs of a great tradition, but as little people, people who are confused and afraid, but who try to rise to the occasion and acquit ourselves well in difficult circumstances. So we identify with Pippin. And we understand his loneliness, confusion, fear, and ,hopefully, his ultimate bravery.

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From: Selmo Sent: 4/8/2003 4:16 AM
Did Tolkien see himself as a hobbit?

I can imagine young 2nd Lieutenant Tolkien, J.R.R. felling the same as Pippin when he experiences his first bombardment from the German guns in Flanders.

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From: Stormrider Sent: 4/8/2003 7:43 AM
The hobbits have always lived in a quiet and peaceful land and are very unused to conflicts and wars. They may have a few neighorly squabbles from time to time but nothing as frightening as a battle.

I believe Tolkien relates this chapter through Pippin's eyes because war is such a new and different experience to the hobbit and writing from his viewpoint Tolkien could bring out more of the details through his fresh viewpoint. Other soldiers who were accustomed to war tactics might not give it as personal a touch.

Stormrider

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From: Colleen Sent: 4/8/2003 2:45 PM
Tolkien most often wrote from the smallest person's point of view -- usually a Hobbit. When a Hobbit wasn't available, he used Gimli like on the Paths of the Dead. I would guess, that if Pippen weren't around he would have used Bergil.

My guess for why he did this is because the Hobbits are easy for us to relate to. We spent so much time with them in the Shire that we've come to identify with them -- especially those of us who have never been in or seen this kind of war. I think I would definatley feel the same kind of fear and anquish as Pippen.

Gandalf or Eomer may have been able to give a more accurate account of what was going on, but it wouldn't have been in 'human' terms. When I watch the news and hear the generals say this flank did that and that unit did this it all sounds very septic and sanitary. What we see and feel through Pippin is real.

Colleen

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From: Desi-Baggins Sent: 4/8/2003 6:03 PM
We have all seen war movies or some may have even been in a war so we all have an idea of what it is like on the battle field. When we look at things through Pippin it gives us the behind the scene look. We see that Denethor was loosing it and wasn't even running the show. Normally when you think of a battle you picture a great leader giving comands and making sure all is going according to plan, so with this chapter being written this way we see it isn't so and we get more character build on Denethor. How we see Denethor in this chapter is important because before we saw him as strong and cold, but he really does have feelings and fears!

Desi