Post by MajahTR on Jan 17, 2009 9:05:48 GMT -6
Iarwain would like us to track the theme of Humility. This will be a group effort.
DA
I think humility is a re-addressed theme throughout the tales. It's touched on regarding the unworthy Ringbearer, and reestablished in each interaction between Sam and Frodo. Seems Sam always felt himself less than Frodo (humble in the truest sense), yet rose to become as much, if not more!
Namárië,
Iarwain
Well being as I am the "humility tracker", I need to think about that one, I'd like to point out the first one within the "Foreword"
"I desired to do this for my own satisfaction, and had little hope that other people would be interested in this work"
-J.R.R.Tolkien
Prologue:
"Hobbits are an unobtrusive but ancient people" (this might be a stretch, comments?)
The Long-Expected Party:
The discourse of the Old Gaffer at the Ivy Bush is full of humble or honoring statements towards Bilbo and Frodo, it if nothing else is a clearly defined line of social status within the Shire.
"Boats are quite tricky enough for those that sit still without looking for further cause of trouble" -Gaffer defending Frodo's parents
"Mr Bilbo has learned him[Sam] his letters- meaning no harm, mark you, and I hope no harm will come of it." -Gaffer
Namárië,
Iarwain
Iarwian: "Hobbits are an unobtrusive but ancient people" (this might be a stretch, comments?)
The key word there is unobtrusive. My dictionary (Webster's II New Riverside revised edition) says that means "not noticeable." On the other hand, Obtrude means to thrust (oneself or one's ideas) on without invitation." To refrain from doing so is certainly evidence of humility.
Sparrow
Thanks for the favorable vote Sparrow, my stretch was considering that not all Hobbits truely live up to that unobtrusive behavior so my doubt is based on lableing them as a whole.
So more humility though can be seen of Gandalf when he debates with Bilbo about leaving the Ring for Frodo. Very masterfully he lets a glimmer of his power show through, but still allows Bilbo's freewill in the matter.
Sorry so behind DA, I will however catch up soon.
Namárië,
Iarwain
An idea on the theme of humility: Contrasting Boromir, Denethor, & Faramir. Obviously we only really know much of Boromir in FotR -- but I think this theme is worth following through the later trilogy as well.
Boromir begins in pride, but ends in humility. Looking at his brother & his father must wait for the discussions of later books!
Questyn
Thanks Questyn,
Good eye! It will be interesting to compare this later in the tales with both his brother and his father. Well done!
Namárië,
Iarwain
I see a lot of humility in Gandalf. He refrains from open displays of power like Saruman and really takes a lot of abuse from people who don't like him (for example, his cold reception in Rohan in TTT) without retaliating (although I don't know if that really implies humility, but it does show self-restraint). He's devoted to hobbits, who aren't really learned or powerful, so that shows he's not proud. He's really more concerned with fulfilling his mission in Middle Earth than getitng a lot of power in the process.
One scene from the movie that gave me a visual image of Gandalf's humility is when he gets down on his knees to greet the hobbits with a hug. I mean, he's a wizard sent from Valinor to save Middle Earth, and he's on his knees to say hello to an old friend. To me, it really shows his selfless character.
Eleandune
Welcome Eleandunë,
Very perceptive, Gandalf is very understated throughout the FotR. I don't know if you have read the Silmarillion or Unfinsihed Tales yet, but in those books it becomes evident Gandalf fears he is not up to the task, and that he considers Sauron a greater power and fears him!
I haven't welcomed you officially as yet, but glad to see you exploring and posting the boards. Hope your having fun? I'm Iarwain, so if you have any questions, or comments please feel free. No pride here, just friendly students gazing in awe at a masters work.
Namárië,
Iarwain
P.S. I wasn't sure if you wanted to use the accent above the "E" in your name, but if you do. Hold down your "ALT" key, and on your number keypad type 137. That will give you the "ë".
Wow, great topic! I think the humility theme is what makes me love LOTR. It always amazes me and gives me hope to think of small hands shaping the world. As an outdoor instructor, I take people into the Wilderness and show them what they really can do. Like many characters in LOTR, one can see alot of change and personal growth.
As far as the topics already mentioned:
I would say that hobbits are unobtrusive. They are hardly known in the big picture of ME. Those who do go poking their noses about, playing with elves and battling dragons are either legends or troublemakers. The ring was safe in the Shire for such a long time because Hobbits tend to go about their business without knowldege or care about the rest of the world around them. Similarly no one worried about them until Gollum spilt the beans. They are a prime example of unexpected, and humble, people doing accomplishing amazing things.
I've never liked Boromir because he's arrogant at the start. I've heard a few people speak to his credit on these boards and plan to pay more attention to his character change in this next reading. His could be the most powerful change when charting humility. He gives us hope that anyone can change.
I wish Gandalf was my Grandpa. I wise person that to the residents of the Shire brings trouble. He doesn't flaunt his power and knows exactly when to say the right things to inspire anyone to achieve all that they can.
Has anyone thought about Aragorn. I'm not sure if he's an example of humilty or not. Is he a humble King in disguise or another unobtrusive character who discovers what he's capable of. Any thoughts?
keep shining
abbie
> P.S. I wasn't sure if you wanted to use the accent above the "E" in your
name,
> but if you do. Hold down your "ALT" key, and on your number keypad type
137.
> That will give you the "ë".
This is so cool! I didn't know you could do that. Something new to play
with on my computer ;-) Would it be possible to get all the Quenya letters this way, and is there a list of these codes somewhere? This'll definitely come in handy.
Diana
Accented Characters Chart for PC
120 Ç ü
130 é â ä à å ç ê ë è ï
140 î ì Ä Å É æ Æ ô ö ò
150 û ù ÿ Ö Ü
160 á í ó ú ñ Ñ
To type the desired character, hold down the Alt key and type the appropriate number on the numeric keypad. For example, type Alt-136 for ê; Alt-153 for Ö; Alt-139 for ï, etc.
NOTE: You must hold down the Alt key; simply pressing it before you type the numbers doesn’t give the right result. Also, using the numbers in the query section of the keyboard won’t work; you have to use the numeric keypad (make sure Num Lock is on).
On Aragorn & humility:
I think he displays humility for the most part. He doesn't press his right to be king on others, but goes step by step through the demonstrations that he is the right one (most of which seem to take place in Return of the King).
Perhaps the scene entering Theoden's hall would be an exception? Or, is he rightful in being upset at leaving his sword outside like that? That was mentioned in the Barnes & Noble material & I'm still not sure what to make of that scene.
Questyn
DA
I think humility is a re-addressed theme throughout the tales. It's touched on regarding the unworthy Ringbearer, and reestablished in each interaction between Sam and Frodo. Seems Sam always felt himself less than Frodo (humble in the truest sense), yet rose to become as much, if not more!
Namárië,
Iarwain
Well being as I am the "humility tracker", I need to think about that one, I'd like to point out the first one within the "Foreword"
"I desired to do this for my own satisfaction, and had little hope that other people would be interested in this work"
-J.R.R.Tolkien
Prologue:
"Hobbits are an unobtrusive but ancient people" (this might be a stretch, comments?)
The Long-Expected Party:
The discourse of the Old Gaffer at the Ivy Bush is full of humble or honoring statements towards Bilbo and Frodo, it if nothing else is a clearly defined line of social status within the Shire.
"Boats are quite tricky enough for those that sit still without looking for further cause of trouble" -Gaffer defending Frodo's parents
"Mr Bilbo has learned him[Sam] his letters- meaning no harm, mark you, and I hope no harm will come of it." -Gaffer
Namárië,
Iarwain
Iarwian: "Hobbits are an unobtrusive but ancient people" (this might be a stretch, comments?)
The key word there is unobtrusive. My dictionary (Webster's II New Riverside revised edition) says that means "not noticeable." On the other hand, Obtrude means to thrust (oneself or one's ideas) on without invitation." To refrain from doing so is certainly evidence of humility.
Sparrow
Thanks for the favorable vote Sparrow, my stretch was considering that not all Hobbits truely live up to that unobtrusive behavior so my doubt is based on lableing them as a whole.
So more humility though can be seen of Gandalf when he debates with Bilbo about leaving the Ring for Frodo. Very masterfully he lets a glimmer of his power show through, but still allows Bilbo's freewill in the matter.
Sorry so behind DA, I will however catch up soon.
Namárië,
Iarwain
An idea on the theme of humility: Contrasting Boromir, Denethor, & Faramir. Obviously we only really know much of Boromir in FotR -- but I think this theme is worth following through the later trilogy as well.
Boromir begins in pride, but ends in humility. Looking at his brother & his father must wait for the discussions of later books!
Questyn
Thanks Questyn,
Good eye! It will be interesting to compare this later in the tales with both his brother and his father. Well done!
Namárië,
Iarwain
I see a lot of humility in Gandalf. He refrains from open displays of power like Saruman and really takes a lot of abuse from people who don't like him (for example, his cold reception in Rohan in TTT) without retaliating (although I don't know if that really implies humility, but it does show self-restraint). He's devoted to hobbits, who aren't really learned or powerful, so that shows he's not proud. He's really more concerned with fulfilling his mission in Middle Earth than getitng a lot of power in the process.
One scene from the movie that gave me a visual image of Gandalf's humility is when he gets down on his knees to greet the hobbits with a hug. I mean, he's a wizard sent from Valinor to save Middle Earth, and he's on his knees to say hello to an old friend. To me, it really shows his selfless character.
Eleandune
Welcome Eleandunë,
Very perceptive, Gandalf is very understated throughout the FotR. I don't know if you have read the Silmarillion or Unfinsihed Tales yet, but in those books it becomes evident Gandalf fears he is not up to the task, and that he considers Sauron a greater power and fears him!
I haven't welcomed you officially as yet, but glad to see you exploring and posting the boards. Hope your having fun? I'm Iarwain, so if you have any questions, or comments please feel free. No pride here, just friendly students gazing in awe at a masters work.
Namárië,
Iarwain
P.S. I wasn't sure if you wanted to use the accent above the "E" in your name, but if you do. Hold down your "ALT" key, and on your number keypad type 137. That will give you the "ë".
Wow, great topic! I think the humility theme is what makes me love LOTR. It always amazes me and gives me hope to think of small hands shaping the world. As an outdoor instructor, I take people into the Wilderness and show them what they really can do. Like many characters in LOTR, one can see alot of change and personal growth.
As far as the topics already mentioned:
I would say that hobbits are unobtrusive. They are hardly known in the big picture of ME. Those who do go poking their noses about, playing with elves and battling dragons are either legends or troublemakers. The ring was safe in the Shire for such a long time because Hobbits tend to go about their business without knowldege or care about the rest of the world around them. Similarly no one worried about them until Gollum spilt the beans. They are a prime example of unexpected, and humble, people doing accomplishing amazing things.
I've never liked Boromir because he's arrogant at the start. I've heard a few people speak to his credit on these boards and plan to pay more attention to his character change in this next reading. His could be the most powerful change when charting humility. He gives us hope that anyone can change.
I wish Gandalf was my Grandpa. I wise person that to the residents of the Shire brings trouble. He doesn't flaunt his power and knows exactly when to say the right things to inspire anyone to achieve all that they can.
Has anyone thought about Aragorn. I'm not sure if he's an example of humilty or not. Is he a humble King in disguise or another unobtrusive character who discovers what he's capable of. Any thoughts?
keep shining
abbie
> P.S. I wasn't sure if you wanted to use the accent above the "E" in your
name,
> but if you do. Hold down your "ALT" key, and on your number keypad type
137.
> That will give you the "ë".
This is so cool! I didn't know you could do that. Something new to play
with on my computer ;-) Would it be possible to get all the Quenya letters this way, and is there a list of these codes somewhere? This'll definitely come in handy.
Diana
Accented Characters Chart for PC
| 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 |
120 Ç ü
130 é â ä à å ç ê ë è ï
140 î ì Ä Å É æ Æ ô ö ò
150 û ù ÿ Ö Ü
160 á í ó ú ñ Ñ
To type the desired character, hold down the Alt key and type the appropriate number on the numeric keypad. For example, type Alt-136 for ê; Alt-153 for Ö; Alt-139 for ï, etc.
NOTE: You must hold down the Alt key; simply pressing it before you type the numbers doesn’t give the right result. Also, using the numbers in the query section of the keyboard won’t work; you have to use the numeric keypad (make sure Num Lock is on).
On Aragorn & humility:
I think he displays humility for the most part. He doesn't press his right to be king on others, but goes step by step through the demonstrations that he is the right one (most of which seem to take place in Return of the King).
Perhaps the scene entering Theoden's hall would be an exception? Or, is he rightful in being upset at leaving his sword outside like that? That was mentioned in the Barnes & Noble material & I'm still not sure what to make of that scene.
Questyn