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Post by Andorinha on Jul 22, 2013 8:33:02 GMT -6
LOL -- I, for one, like history lessons! And of course long never bothered Karo6...
Oh, now that is a good idea, a sub-section from each on what they find, what they think, while moving through the derelict Hobbit site.
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Post by Stormrider on Jul 24, 2013 6:28:33 GMT -6
From Appendix B The Tale of Years in the back of The Return of the King:
TA 1150 The Stoors came over the Redhorn Pass and move to the Angle or to Dunland.
TA 1300 Evil things multiply and Nazgul reappear so the Periannath, of Hobbits, migrated westward and many settle in Bree.
TA 1356 The Stoors leave the Angle and some return to Wilderland
TA 1601 Many Periannath migrate from Bree and are granted land beyond Baranduin.
TA 1630 They are joined by Stoors coming up from Dunland
TA 1636 The Great Plaque spreads north and east from Gondor and beyond the Baranduin, the Periannath barely survive and suffer great loss.
TA 2463 Deagol the Stoor finds the One Ring and is murdered by Smeagol.
TA 2470 Smeagol-Gollum hides in the Misty Mountains.
TA 2851 Saruman begins searching for The Ring in the Gladden Fields. Were the Stoors still in this area or had they left?
I can't find anything about the Stoors leaving the Gladden Fields area. It must have been between TA 2463 and TA 2851. And why did they leave?
As the Eagles set our group down in this area around TA January 16, 3019, there are no Stoors there, correct?
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Post by Andorinha on Jul 24, 2013 10:30:25 GMT -6
There is some material in the Letters that addresses these issues. I'll look for the pages and get a direct citation. Yeah here they are:
Letter # 214 To A.C. Nunn, pp 289 - 296, has lots on the hobbits of the Stoor-like Smeagol group.
"With the remigration of the Stoors back to Wilderland in TA 1356, all contact between this retrograde group and the ancestors of the Shirefolk was broken. More than 1100 years elapsed before the Deagol-Smeagol incident (c. 2463)."
"All Hobbits were slow to change, but the emigrant Stoors were going back to a wilder and more primitive life of small and dwindling communities; while the Shire-folk in the 1400 years of their occupation had developed a more settled and elaborate social life..." (p. 290)
"Between 2463 and the beginning of Gandalf’s special enquiries concerning the Ring (nearly 500 years later) they [the Smeagol Stoors] appear indeed to have died out altogether (except of course for Smeagol, or to have fled from the shadow of Dol Guldur." (JRRT, Letter #214, p. 290 footnote, emphasis mine)
Perhaps, there could be a few "Outsider," "Wild" Hobbits still in the area? How far would they go to "flee the shadow of Dol Guldur?" Might some Wild hobbits still be found, perhaps on the more protected West Bank of the Anduin? LOL, sounds like JRRT meant for the whole area in late TA to be depopulated, hobbit-less -- but he never, definitely says they were all gone, so he left the door open a crack...
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Post by Stormrider on Jul 24, 2013 11:11:47 GMT -6
Thanks, Prof Karo6 ... errr ... Andorinha. I knew you would know how to dig up some dirt. ;D
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Post by Stormrider on Jul 27, 2013 5:50:40 GMT -6
How do I get down to this area in LOTRO? I would like to take a look as see what it looks like there. I am trying to figure out how to describe the lay of the land in the story and thought looking at the landscape in LOTRO would help...unless the level is too high for me and I would be doing nothing but running instead of looking!
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Post by Desi Baggins on Jul 27, 2013 6:09:39 GMT -6
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Post by Fredeghar Wayfarer on Jul 28, 2013 15:29:34 GMT -6
How do I get down to this area in LOTRO? I would like to take a look as see what it looks like there. I am trying to figure out how to describe the lay of the land in the story and thought looking at the landscape in LOTRO would help...unless the level is too high for me and I would be doing nothing but running instead of looking! The Gladden Fields are not in LOTRO. The only areas along the Anduin in the game are Lothlorien, The Great River (including Parth Celebrant and the Brown Lands), and East Rohan. In terms of describing them, the Tolkien Gateway calls them "a wilderness of islets, filled with reeds, rushes, and vast clumps of yellow irises grown taller than a man." So it's a very marshy area with tall reeds and massive flowers. There are also probably ruins of abandoned hobbit-holes in the nearby hills or houses built near the banks of the river. Such houses would probably be on stilts to avoid flooding.
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Post by Stormrider on Jul 28, 2013 19:20:43 GMT -6
wow! Stilts? I didn't realize that. I thought I had read in UT in the Disaster of the Gladden Fields chapter that the slopes going from the Anduin to the forest of Mirkwood sloped uphill and were rather on the rolling side. They might make good hobbit holes, too.
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Post by Fredeghar Wayfarer on Jul 28, 2013 23:06:37 GMT -6
wow! Stilts? I didn't realize that. I thought I had read in UT in the Disaster of the Gladden Fields chapter that the slopes going from the Anduin to the forest of Mirkwood sloped uphill and were rather on the rolling side. They might make good hobbit holes, too. I'm just speculating on the stilts. Tolkien doesn't mention that. There are houses like that in various places around the world that are near water or prone to flooding or hurricanes. Stilt houses could be a cool visual, like a miniature Lake-town on the marshes. But if you want to stick to canon, just go with the hobbit holes.
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Post by Stormrider on Jul 30, 2013 5:43:31 GMT -6
Thanks for everyone's help in digging up information. I am getting very close to getting the history part down for my next installment . . . now what Mathom will I find? hmmm
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Post by Stormrider on Jul 30, 2013 16:35:22 GMT -6
It is rather long...sorry about that. I hope I have the statistics correct from mine and all of your research help!
Now it is Desi's turn!
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Post by Andorinha on Jul 30, 2013 23:17:08 GMT -6
Alright Stormrider! I like it! Great use of the sources to set the stage, and I like the mood of the piece -- nostalgia, a sense of awe and wonder that bring the Gladden site and its history to life...
Thanks!
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Post by Stormrider on Jul 31, 2013 0:11:41 GMT -6
Thanks! It was a challenge to get it right with all the history and that is what took me so long to finalized. Even though the land would have been worn down and deserted, it would still be pretty darn cool to stand on this old battlefield and think of what took place there--obliteration of an entire army/cavalry, saving the shards, losing the One Ring, the finding of it, deception and murder, and sneaky intrigue (Saruman), not too mention that a branch of the hobbits lived there for a while and, too, vanished. It would be something to give us pause for thought.
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Post by Fredeghar Wayfarer on Jul 31, 2013 2:23:12 GMT -6
Your post is awfully heavy in history but yes, that is an area that would give one pause and create a sense of awe and reverence.
I feel as though Dwyrmur wouldn't know about Deagol finding the Ring. That wasn't common knowledge in Middle-earth, was it? Gandalf had learned that story through his interactions with Gollum and from what Bilbo had told him. If everyone in Middle-earth knew about Deagol and Smeagol, surely Sauron or Saruman would have known where to find the Ring sooner.
That's my only criticism. Remember, I was approaching my character as a resident of Middle-earth, not a counterpart of my real-life self (I hope that doesn't throw off the tone you guys have been setting for this story).
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Post by fanuidhol on Jul 31, 2013 4:43:44 GMT -6
Your post is awfully heavy in history but yes, that is an area that would give one pause and create a sense of awe and reverence. I feel as though Dwyrmur wouldn't know about Deagol finding the Ring. That wasn't common knowledge in Middle-earth, was it? Gandalf had learned that story through his interactions with Gollum and from what Bilbo had told him. If everyone in Middle-earth knew about Deagol and Smeagol, surely Sauron or Saruman would have known where to find the Ring sooner. That's my only criticism. Remember, I was approaching my character as a resident of Middle-earth, not a counterpart of my real-life self (I hope that doesn't throw off the tone you guys have been setting for this story). Perhaps, Radagast told you our story and the Ring's history. Maybe he chose you as our guide because you have a love of history and know something of the Ring's history to which he filled in the blanks, and are open-minded to our special circumstances. Fan
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